Curse

Eonwe · Jul 15, 2005, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElderAtronach

Hammers are ok... but once you get hit with soothing images, what do you do? Or you're hitting someone with sympathic visage on? No adrenaline = no massive hammer attacks.

Simple, just call for one of your monks to pull it, since they all should be packing some type of hex removal. Also, if you're attacking someone with sympathetic visage on them, and you don't have enchantment removal... just switch targets.

Dalgon · Jul 15, 2005, 04:37 AM // 04:37

well a few replies... well.. stonefist gauntlets are found in droknar's forge.. and hydrak, answers to your messages

how can i deal such huge dmg? your numbers are completely wrong as you put them, like i said, the numbers i put was just an example, since dmg is influenced by many things, but consider this.

warrior armor is against physical attacks, and against physical, warriors are simply uber. but not even one piece of warrior armor gives protection against elemental, hence why air eles can hurt warriors so much with their lightning... doesn that ring a bell?
I use shocking hammer.. in another words my dmg to warriors isn't physical anymore, I literally bypass armor and most of the dmg goes right through.
10/10 sundering with sword or whatever? I repeat, the dmg numbers i put here are based on my character, and it took me quite some time finding my current armor configuration, which most ppl in this game haven't figured out yet, and i am not about to give it out. Even hammer warriors never go over 20 dmg against me unless they use a skill
but like i said, personal secret. I can't be babbling around about my armor cuz then everyone will be like me and killing another warrior will become nearly impossible.
also, you rely too much on numbers... have you forgotten one of the principles of guild wars? "play in a world, where skill, not lvl decides"
even a sword warrior can do good dmg with right skill/attribute allocation, but again, it would take quite some time. I didn't always deal the huge dmg I deal now, took lots of testing and trying and thinking (to figure out monster's weakness etc etc, working on figuring out each class' weakness), and i found my potential not long ago after endless testing...
i must admit i don't like swords at all, they have nice skills but in pvp they are nothing but useless.. axes, im using axe at the moment for change of routine, and i must say they are decent
but ill round my prowess up to one simple question: Can you hit a monster for 465 dmg and kill it in one blow? it was a low lvl monster(16), that i normally hit for 300-318 dmg mostly, and i use judge's insight... but a sword or axe will never match that number
also, you might want to look into hammer... sword and axe dmg is not very good... and you forget that hammer put weakness on you? there is always a counter for everything, and if i get weakness on myself it won't last very long at all because i am prepared against conditions at least.. like i said, in pvp i am built to kill and a little puny condition won't get in my way
can't remember the names but if you hear about someone that killed ppl in pvp in 3-5 blows.... *points at self* there is another warrior like me who i haven't had the honor of meeting that did the same in hoh, can't wait to meet him one day though we'd make an awesome team
also, i have had 6 peopl eleave axes and swords, and become literally my pupils.. the voluntarily said "teach us the ways of the hammer" as stupid as it may sound, i guess me killing them with a hammer made them consider their current weapon. 2 of those people now are as strong as me, and when we do pvp together well....

painful
but again, we can just meet in-game, team arena, and i can just show you how it all works... anyone that has a doubt or question just tell me your in-game name and we could arrange something.. maybe ill find myself some more students? lol.. kidding

i posted my two different builds before, read them, see the descriptions for the builds, and you should be able to figure it out
or you are always welcome to join me in pvp so i can show you

but again don't forget this thread is about strength vs tactics

aB- · Jul 15, 2005, 04:43 AM // 04:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalgon

but again don't forget this thread is about strength vs tactics

That must be why you emphasized 3/4 of your post on how powerful your hammer is.

You fail to realize that warriors wielding axes and swords can have shields which is an extra 16 armor. No armor combination can beat one full droknar set with a 16 armor shield. A shield can also have mods that reduce damage by 2, add to health, etc. I highly doubt you have an armor combination that makes the average sword/axe damage 3 times weaker than a hammer attack.

A weapon that does lighting damage does not bypass all armor, does it?

Dalgon · Jul 15, 2005, 04:47 AM // 04:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by aB-

That must be why you emphasized 3/4 of your post on how powerful your hammer is.

You fail to realize that warriors wielding axes and swords can have shields which is an extra 16 armor. No armor combination can beat one full droknar set with a 16 armor shield. I highly doubt you have an armor combination that makes the average sword/axe damage 3 times weaker than a hammer attack.

i know shields are very good, but well... the rule is simple as this.. if you want survival, you must sacrifice dmg potential
if you want dmg, you must sacrifice survival
sword/axe, no matter how it's set up, in the end it's a survival build, even if your whole skill bar is dmg based
like i said, my armor configuration is not to be revealed, at least not now, but using hammer i take very little dmg from swords and axes, thanks to that same configuration
i must recognize and i gladly do so, that the 16 armor im getting from shield is awesome
i can't solo a resurrection priest anymor though, no way to out dmg the heal area, unless i interrupt it
thus, for pvp, back to hammer
and lightning dmg does not bypass all armor, but it does ignore some of it...
ever wondered why that chain lightning hit you for 100+ dmg?
lightning and metal.. not compatible

like i said, i am in game now.. write me if you need to discuss anything

hydrak · Jul 15, 2005, 04:53 AM // 04:53

Whatever you put on hammer such as lightning, fire, or cold damage, you can do the same with sword. Bottom line, on normal attack sword and hammer are about the same because you can use a shield with sword. When using skill, sword has superior damage.

Edit: btw, if you've ever go against a spirit group, they don't need to use greater confragration against you to turn your damage to cold and absorb it with mantra.

Now your build it messed up if you use shocking hilt and judge's insight at the same time. This is the big waste of a hilt upgrade.

Impress me by making a direct comparison between sword and hammer damage. In my comparison, like I said before, whatever you upgrade with hammer, you can do the same with sword.

Moofoo Pork · Jul 15, 2005, 04:57 AM // 04:57

*Throws Dirt* "Ahhahahahahha swing all you want!"

I must agree, hammer warriors are very affective in pvp, but there are so many ways to counter warriors.....

Dalgon · Jul 15, 2005, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrak

Whatever you put on hammer such as lightning, fire, or cold damage, you can do the same with sword. Bottom line, on normal attack sword and hammer are about the same because you can use a shield with sword. When using skill, sword has superior damage.

Edit: btw, if you've ever go against a spirit group, they don't need to use greater confragration against you to turn your damage to cold and absorb it with mantra.

Now your build it messed up if you use shocking hilt and judge's insight at the same time. This is the big waste of a hilt upgrade.

Impress me by making a direct comparison between sword and hammer damage. In my comparison, like I said before, whatever you upgrade with hammer, you can do the same with sword.

comparison is simple:
sword max dmg: 22
axe max dmg: 28
hammer max dmg: 35
like i said, this thread will not get anywhere without some actual showing

contact me and we'll do some pvping together

hydrak · Jul 15, 2005, 05:07 AM // 05:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moofoo Pork

*Throws Dirt* "Ahhahahahahha swing all you want!"

I must agree, hammer warriors are very affective in pvp, but there are so many ways to counter warriors.....

Sure hammer warrior are very good against casters in pvp. But I somehow lose respect for any warrior carrying mending with them into pvp. More respect is lost when a warrior is using weapon with shocking hilt and judge's insight at the same time.

Dalgon · Jul 15, 2005, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moofoo Pork

*Throws Dirt* "Ahhahahahahha swing all you want!"

I must agree, hammer warriors are very affective in pvp, but there are so many ways to counter warriors.....

you are very right moofoo.. but again.. nothing in this game is meant to be perfect everything has a counter :P
soothing images without monk in my team? ouch
a few hexes? hmm... conjure phantom + disease + poison and whatnot? ouch
although i can take care of my conditions, if you can put them back right away ull have me pretty screwed

just don't let me get 7 adrenaline and you're set
lol

Dalgon · Jul 15, 2005, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrak

Sure hammer warrior are very good against casters in pvp. But I somehow lose respect for any warrior carrying mending with them into pvp. More respect is lost when a warrior is using weapon with shocking hilt and judge's insight at the same time.

plz note i don't use hilts since i don't use swords, and with hammer i don't need judge's, and wouldn't use it anyway
uses too much energy.. judge's insight is more like a pve thing since i don't run out of energy in pve.. and is till don't use it much.. better skills to put there
the mending? it's very nice to counter a poison or conjure phantom long enough to kill whatever put it on you
logging in game now... message if you like.. will check back later

hydrak · Jul 15, 2005, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalgon

comparison is simple:
sword max dmg: 22
axe max dmg: 28
hammer max dmg: 35
like i said, this thread will not get anywhere without some actual showing

contact me and we'll do some pvping together

Sure we can do that, but tell all of us your intention of using weapon with shocking hilt and judge's insight at the same time?

Also like i said before whatever damage convertion and armor penetration hammer can have, so can sword. Tell me what's wrong with my calculation?

If you are saying that the damage calculation on this forum is wrong, then let's clear this up first. No hand-wavering explanation.

Dalgon · Jul 15, 2005, 05:13 AM // 05:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by hydrak

Sure we can do that, but tell all of us your intention of using weapon with shocking hilt and judge's insight at the same time?

Also like i said before whatever damage convertion and armor penetration hammer can have, so can sword. Tell me what's wrong with my calculation?

If you are saying that the damage calculation on this forum is wrong, then let's clear this up first. No hand-wavering explanation.

like i already said, i don't use sundering with hammer at all, and don't use judge's... uses too much energy
the mentioning of judge's in beginning was just to show how strength could add to the armor penetration and how effective it could be combined with other stuff
and again, i have tried all weapons and no matter what skills, and i have used them all, i always deal at least 2x dmg more with hammer than with anything else
feel free to write me in game, signing off for now

hydrak · Jul 15, 2005, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalgon

like i already said, i don't use sundering with hammer at all, and don't use judge's... uses too much energy
the mentioning of judge's in beginning was just to show how strength could add to the armor penetration and how effective it could be combined with other stuff
and again, i have tried all weapons and no matter what skills, and i have used them all, i always deal at least 2x dmg more with hammer than with anything else
results of around 2 months of testing in game after it was released, and a few months of testing in beta

I don't doubt that you can do almost 2 times the damage with hammer on a normal attack (comparing to sword) against a 60AL target. But it's a different matter going up against a target with over 100AL.

Just show me a direct comparison on normal attack damage: sword/shield warrior vs hammer warrior. If you use lightning dmg hammer in the calculation, then do the same with sword.

Phades · Jul 15, 2005, 05:21 AM // 05:21

Changing it to an element just causes you to avoid the +10-20 bonus to AL that the warrior armor provides. Against a few different types of casters and rangers, its worse than your basic physical attacks. That is why people typically carry more than one type of weapon/mod combination. I have to point out though that if you dont have any real mana issues and you arent getting targeted or interfered with by anything at all, that judge's insight changes the damage to holy, which is better than elemental, hence why it seems as good as it is, in addition to the armor penetration.

Just like you have seen really big hammer attacks ive seen final thrusts for close to 200 damage, with galrath and pure strikes only ~+45-60 less. Granted its a bit more conditional, but the damage is there. The part i dont like about some of the better warrior attack skills is the draining all adrenalin part, creating an artifical exhaustion effect interupting the chain slightly. Its the same way with many of the stances ending when any skill is used, cutting down their effectiveness. I think part of the reason why many people have an aversion to warriors the adrenalin stipulation. Sure it makes them somewhat unique in operation over time, but requires constant sucessful melee contact. Unfortunatly, there are many ways to avoid that situation in every class. Combine that with facing off against a caster of a similar build premis as a warrior, usually nets the warrior at a loss due to the advantage of the energy being able to be used now, instead of ~7-10 seconds from now. Ever see a small group of warriors lose to a knockdown ele? I have, in addition to any job style that mimics something that a warrior is supposed to accomplish, while possessing a better form of defense against the warrior and better, if not equal, defense a warrior possesses to all other damage sources. The difference is that most of the jobs that mimic something a warrior can do, many of them can perform it sooner and from a distance.

I still find it kinda disapointing that the strength only affects the attack skills as well. Allowing for the strenght to be applied to every attack would have made them a little more distinct than a caster playing at being a warrior and only spending points in weapon abilities or tactics to accomplish what they want to do and only miss out on the 1% damage. Granted, they dont get the option for a decent duration sprint or whatever, but could choose to use charge instead, or a skill out of their main profession that either lasts longer or goes faster while usually performing other things at the same time aside from the run speed boost.

Ben Reed · Jul 15, 2005, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Hammer is definitely the best for anti-caster, which means WORLDS in PvP, where casters are king.

Axe is probably second best due to raw damage. With hammer warrior support, axe would probably do well in 8v8.

In my experience, though, sword isn't totally useless...at least, not in the 4v4 arenas (my guild hasn't gotten around to Tombs/GvG lately, so we try to at least get some practice/faction in by doing 4v4 arena). People usually don't bring more than 1 warrior in 4v4, and if it's one sword guy (usually me) versus one hammer guy, I'm gonna win by virtue of one single skill: Hamstring.

He may be able to flatten my monks and casters with a single blow, but as long as I keep him crippled, he can't chase down my casters, and we're free to pin down his buddies one by one and spike 'em.

Unfortunately, snaring seems to be the only appreciable strength of swords in PvP...and in anything bigger than 4v4, I for one think you'd be better off with a hammer and/or an axe warrior in your team build, because being able to snare targets so they can't rush your casters or run away from damage loses its edge when you're faced with 8 different people to snare, at least one of whom probably has condition removal.

I just play sword cause I suck at hammer. I dunno, I just can't seem to grasp the "flow" of a good hammer offense without blowing all my energy and adrenaline. I dunno what I'm messing up.

hydrak · Jul 15, 2005, 05:41 AM // 05:41

The person who started this thread does have a few informative suggestion. But he also made some claims that are completely wrong. This is why I'm trying to get him clearing up these claims. No luck so far, only hand-wavering explanation...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dalgon

Lovely when a sword/axe warrior can't hit me for over 15 dmg while i answer back with blows for 40 at least.